Ethics Question

discdog

Evolving Lead Gorilla
Why would you not post what company this was on this board? It is as bad as saying "look at these unscrupulous business practices I was subjected to, but I won't tell you by whom so you get screwed too."

Thanks!

and yes, I realize that that info is now available via the link to SC
I probably should have handled this differently. I didn't intend to short change or slight this board in any way. Hell, I like it here and have always felt welcome. That's the reason I started this thread. But I was unsure of the response and was hoping that someone who knew me would respond and clue me in. Moki just beat me to it. Although, I wouldn't have linked to another board, it worked out. So far.

I guess I just generally hate the drama that posting across other boards sometimes creates, and didn't want to perpetuate that. But I did feel strongly enough about this topic that I thought by doing it in the manner in which I did would not appear to "out of nowhere come here and start flaming someone".

The last thing I intended was to insult or slight anyone. And my apologies to anyone who took it that way.
 

volfan

not selling a product
I have been reading this here and at the other board since the link was posted and I can tell you that I appreciate you trying to be tactful about this. I can also tell you that while the vendor in question has posted a reply at the other forum, he has not done the same here. This tells me that not only does he not have a "plausible" excuse, he does not care enough about the members here to post an explanation. I have heard that they have a nice B&M but I can assure you that they will never get one red cent of my money. Thanks again for sharing your plight and trying to be diplomatic.

scottie
 

bhudson57

Lowland Gorilla
Thanks for sharing your plight. Like you said, it is one transaction of many, but it will help us to be more cautious when dealing with this vendor. I can appreciate your unwillingness to come right out and flame the vendor. The vendor has been given the opportunity to make things right, and IMO he hasn't. Thanks for the heads up. I'll certainly take the situation into consideration in the future.

Bill
 

lenguamor

Gorila Cabrón
I have been reading this here and at the other board since the link was posted and I can tell you that I appreciate you trying to be tactful about this. I can also tell you that while the vendor in question has posted a reply at the other forum, he has not done the same here. This tells me that not only does he not have a "plausible" excuse, he does not care enough about the members here to post an explanation. I have heard that they have a nice B&M but I can assure you that they will never get one red cent of my money. Thanks again for sharing your plight and trying to be diplomatic.

scottie
Ditto. I'm sorry if I'm going to come off angry about this, but I am.

I will never do business with that vendor, and I will advise anyone against doing so if it comes up. In fact, if there were a "blacklist" of vendors here at CS for the members' benefit, I would think that SH would be a prime candidate.

I don't give a crap about "extenuating circumstances," oreven any inconsistencies in dd's accounts here or in the other forum; the basic facts of the incident remain the same throughout, and those facts indicate at the least poor business practice by the vendor, and at the most fraud - that's the range of options.

1. Gabriel at SH took an order for an item in his stores, took a CC# from the buyer and told the buyer it was a deal. He made a deal, period.

2. Then "his manager" sold the item after Gabriel had told "him" to put it aside because it was sold - for more money!

3. Then Gabriel calls his original customer back and tells him not only that the item was sold out from under him after a deal was made, but that it was sold for more money; now, that's either fishing for an offer or rubbinbg it in - and I don't care which it actually was, because both options are poor business practice.

The vendor is unscrupulous, no question in my mind; all the indicators point to it, from his response in the other forum to his lack of response here.

Screw him, he won't get my money anymore.
 

Danimal

CS Cog
Bad business indeed. To keep your loyal customers or to create new ones, you stick to your word and forego the possibility of a short-term profit. The fact that he charged your card really makes this action taboo. Even if he had just verbally stated it, I would have greatly appreciated the gesture to hold on to it and he would have received my business for a long time.

I imagine that his business may thrive due to the stock he has at hand, but honestly for a B&M, it's all boils down to the client. The B&M I go to has a mediocre stock, high prices, but the warm greeting I get from the manager and the kind gestures he makes goes a LONG way.

Never do business with him again..
 

mastershogun

Chestbeating Pack Leader
after reading the post from the other forum I was not impressed with what the vendor had to say. He did not have any viable excuse and you could tell he sold the humi for more money. I agree with the fact that mistakes wil always happens and that is not the issue... how they make right a mistake is the significant part. He did not handle anything right becuase he was the one who made the mistake for more money and then did nothing to make it right with you :hn
 

discdog

Evolving Lead Gorilla
Most of you guys have read the thread over on the other site. And you also know I have been called a liar. Not sure yet why, but I can assure you that neither over their or here have I tried to mislead or misrepresent anything that has happened. Gabriel has come back and made a statement and I responded:

gmiranda33 wrote:
Guys just to clarify on my behalf. When I phoned DD about the problem I told him that the humidor was sold for more money. In no way was I asking him for an increase in the amount he wanted to spend.

Being that the humidor DD wanted has been sold, I dont know if there is anything I can do to remedy the situation but here goes.

DD if you still want a 2006 LGC Serie Limitada humidor with cigars, I will give it to you at my cost. I am willing to show you the invoice from General Cigars if need be.

Once again I apologize.

Gabriel



And Gabiel just to clarify on my behalf. You initially said the walk-in customer offered more money, that's when I got mad and then you said he bought it. The new offer that you made is measureably more palitable than the original but as I said before to you, I wasn't looking for anything for free. And I don't want to be ungrateful for the offer, but I would rather not deal with your company again. If you would like to extend the offer to one of the board members here, great. It would go a long way to rebuild your crediblity here.

As noted somewhere above, I could have left the attitude and emotion out of my initial post, and for that, I apologize. It was never my intent to try to use this or any other board for personal gain, just to try to impove what I percieve as poor customer service.

As for your apology, I accept.

Hopefully this is now concluded.

I would like to reiterate again, I merely wanted to bring this out into the light of day, I deal with customers everyday and I know that the best way to get someone's attention is to get to their money. I did not and do not want to profit from this, I will find the one I want, pay a fair price for it and be happy as hell. But I'll do it my way. And by the way, thanks to everyone who pm'd me with the sources. I should have one on the way today.
 

lenguamor

Gorila Cabrón
It makes me happy that you found a resolution, dd. Glad you are getting a similar item from another vendor.

I still won't do business with this guy again; a man is judged by his actions, not his words.
 

thebiglebowski

Lowland Gorilla
the vendor was wrong, his initial apology and resolution was half-assed. i'm glad i never heard of this vendor prior to this thread as i would certainly avoid him in the future. any discussion of discipline for the manager who sold the humidor out from under you? i doubt it...

this is a great example of how a site such as CS can be a excellent gathering place and information exchange. very powerful.

thanks for sharing.
 

Bobb

je snork donc je suis
I have been reading this here and at the other board since the link was posted and I can tell you that I appreciate you trying to be tactful about this. I can also tell you that while the vendor in question has posted a reply at the other forum, he has not done the same here. This tells me that not only does he not have a "plausible" excuse, he does not care enough about the members here to post an explanation. I have heard that they have a nice B&M but I can assure you that they will never get one red cent of my money. Thanks again for sharing your plight and trying to be diplomatic.
:tpd:

This is a touchy situation, and I really appreciate you not letting it turn into a huge flame war. I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune. I hope you can find another vendor with better buisness standards.

Thanks for sharing :D
 

volfan

not selling a product
For what it's worth, LJs in Royal Palm Beach, FL and Dukecitycigars.com both have aforementioned LGC humis. Give them a call.

scottie
 

Demented

Aww horse crap!
As far as I’m concerned…

Once the vendor took your card info, the sale was made and the box was yours, period.

To sell the same humidor to a walk-in customer after selling it to you isn’t bad ethics, it’s total lack of ethics!


Dmntd
 

lenguamor

Gorila Cabrón
As far as I’m concerned…

Once the vendor took your card info, the sale was made and the box was yours, period.

To sell the same humidor to a walk-in customer after selling it to you isn’t bad ethics, it’s total lack of ethics!


Dmntd
What he said.
 

wharfrathoss

old man down
i believe everyoner deserveds a 2nd chance, especially if itmight have been an honest mistake/miscomunication-i debated posting (since this is literally my 1st post) but here's my opinion fwiw-it doesn't sound like it happend on purpose, so give him the chance to show what type of guy he is by attempting to make it right-if he don't, out him
 

Ivory Tower

Acronym Wizard
Here's my analysis, ethics aside:

You said, "I offer to buy your LGC humi for x$."

He said, "I accept your offer."

The consideration was you promising to pay x$ for humi and him promising to deliver humi.

Exchanging credit card # is just further evidence of the contract. Also he admitted that you transmitted the credit card #. Further he admitted that you contracted to buy 1/500.

Therefore a simple contract was formed under which you have the following rights and remedies:

If the unique # of the humi is of no interest to you and he has offered to sell you a substitute for less than market price, you're out nothing but hurt feelings.

On the other hand, if you specifically bargained for #1/500, then he owes you the amount necessary to buy that on the open market--evidently $200 over market price.
 
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jinny

Lowland Gorilla
I know I'm in the minority here, but I think the vendor's biggest mistake was his story... tell the right "story" and he could have avoided this fiasco.

this situation is more a customer relations and ethical issue rather than an actual "business" issue... I would be willing to bet that trying to get some sort of compensation thru small claims court would be a waste of time and a complaint to the local BB could be tarnishing an otherwise good local business.

I'm very skeptical about ALL businesses... ALL for profit businesses have to engage in some level of obfuscation in order to stay in business... and to some degree we have to accept it. It's like game... everyday we, as the consumers, run around pretending to not know that the vendors that we buy from are purchasing their wares at a lower cost than we buy from them... sure, implicitly we understand that that is what is happening, but we play along, because it is in our best interest to do so.

I don't begrudge a vendor for holding out for the best price. Vendors do it all the time... slip a tip to the maitre'd and you get someone else's table... pay asking price or more at a dealership and you get that car everyone is sitting around haggling for... etc.

it's really not that surprising... but in most cases, you are not aware that you've been passed over... the more generic the commodity, the more blatant the obfuscation and the easier it is to obfuscate.

personally, I wouldn't like the described situation either... but I've seen far worse happen.

in the case of this vendor, they didn't charge the card... so no payment was actually taken... the fact that they waited to charge the card suggests to me that the supply was tentative... on items that are truly rare, I wouldn't consider it mine till I have it in hand...

the fault I see is that the vendor may have revealed too much of the transaction. I would be upset if I knew that someone cut in line at that restaurant, or if someone else got that car I wanted while I was waiting for the "manager" to okay my deal. Sure, it might be enough to make me go elsewhere next time... but that's why they usually don't tell you when they back stab you.

I'm not trying to defend the vendor's practices... but in this case, he seems to be on the up and up in regards to what happened and even to his detriment, he seems willing to reveal a lot more of his intentions than is necessary... assuming that that isn't a "story" too.

IMO, it's just an unfortunate situation for most of the parties involved... one that, although the vendor seems to be trying to make "right", may not be good enough... and whether it was worth the extra couple hundred bux remains to be seen.
 

JohnnyFlake

Alpha Silverback
Personally, I don't care if the vendor is a member of this club or not. I'd like to know who he is, as I would like to avoid doing business with him. That is truly an unethical thing to do to anyone, and especially so, to another member of this club!:gn :hn

Johnny
 

Ivory Tower

Acronym Wizard
this situation is more a customer relations and ethical issue rather than an actual "business" issue... I would be willing to bet that trying to get some sort of compensation thru small claims court would be a waste of time and a complaint to the local BB could be tarnishing an otherwise good local business.
That's probably not correct, as the vendor has made admissions that prove discdog's case fairly clearly. Further a record of the transactions involved would not be hard to reproduce.

An "otherwise good local business" strongly implies that they are not good in some respects and should be reported to the BBB!

I don't begrudge a vendor for holding out for the best price. Vendors do it all the time...
However, sometimes it's ethically and legally wrong, as in this case apparently.

in the case of this vendor, they didn't charge the card... so no payment was actually taken...
Payment doesn't have to be taken to form a binding contract.

the fact that they waited to charge the card suggests to me that the supply was tentative... on items that are truly rare, I wouldn't consider it mine till I have it in hand...
Supply wasn't tentative when the vendor expressly agreed to sell the 1/500 edition.

IMO, it's just an unfortunate situation for most of the parties involved... one that, although the vendor seems to be trying to make "right", may not be good enough... and whether it was worth the extra couple hundred bux remains to be seen.
See previous post: Bad ethics, bad deal.
 
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