Fuente mass producing?

rwhit37

Being Bob the Builder!
I heard or read somewhere that Fuente was thinking about mass producing all his lines except for Opus and Casa Fuente. Any truth to this or just nice rumor to get every one giddy?

I find it hard to beleive because almost impossible to find The Work of Art, Untold Story, Hemingway Maduros, Anjeos and Opus. Not to mention he loves his marketing....

Anyone know anything?
 

Wondering Nomad

Maturing Primate
He's not doing that already? :)


The non-Cuban producers have a small window to build up their brands now that Fidel has stepped down. The Dominican, Honduran, and Nicaraguan cigar manufacturers are more afraid of the embargo ending than the US government. Their sales will decline considerably for the first few years after the embargo is lifted. If Fuente is planning on this then I would think it is in response to the above issue.
 

JDC20

ChestBeater
He's not doing that already? :)


The non-Cuban producers have a small window to build up their brands now that Fidel has stepped down. The Dominican, Honduran, and Nicaraguan cigar manufacturers are more afraid of the embargo ending than the US government. Their sales will decline considerably for the first few years after the embargo is lifted. If Fuente is planning on this then I would think it is in response to the above issue.
Interesting perspective, but from my pov you've got it a little mixed up, why don't you try to find some comments from these Dominican, Honduran, and Nicaraguan cigar maker about the embargo ending, I think you'll find it interesting.


And no, Fuente isn't "mass producing" anything, business as normal.
 

Dgar

SilverBack
I think with some of the fine NC cigars being produced, they will survive just fine with or without an embargo.

JDC20. maybe a silly question, I'm not a Fuente expert by any means, but does Feuente produce any cigars with NIC tobbaco, and if not do you think it's anything they might consider. What about a Nic Puro from Fuente???
 

mdtaggart

Dumb ass!
He's not doing that already? :)


The non-Cuban producers have a small window to build up their brands now that Fidel has stepped down. The Dominican, Honduran, and Nicaraguan cigar manufacturers are more afraid of the embargo ending than the US government. Their sales will decline considerably for the first few years after the embargo is lifted. If Fuente is planning on this then I would think it is in response to the above issue.
I think the NC producers have been building their brands for quite some time now, maybe even since the embargo started. So what small window are you referring to? There is absolutely no indication that this embargo will be lifted just because Fidel has stepped down. I do not believe that the sales of NC producers would be "considerably" impacted, due to the simple fact that the Cuban producers are already suppying a world market, and would only be able to supply a small portion of the US market share. I can see how Fuente is going to somehow increase his production on some hunch of an end to the embargo.
 

kas

Evolving Lead Gorilla
I don't understand the logic here. If anything, they would want to keep supply down so their product is in relatively greater demand once Cuban product begins to flood the market. Makes no sense to produce like crazy and then have to compete with an even greater supply of potentially preferred cigars.

And I've heard nothing to suggest Fuente is contemplating this - but I'm not an insider either.



He's not doing that already? :)


The non-Cuban producers have a small window to build up their brands now that Fidel has stepped down. The Dominican, Honduran, and Nicaraguan cigar manufacturers are more afraid of the embargo ending than the US government. Their sales will decline considerably for the first few years after the embargo is lifted. If Fuente is planning on this then I would think it is in response to the above issue.
 

moki

SilverBack
He's not doing that already? :)


The non-Cuban producers have a small window to build up their brands now that Fidel has stepped down. The Dominican, Honduran, and Nicaraguan cigar manufacturers are more afraid of the embargo ending than the US government. Their sales will decline considerably for the first few years after the embargo is lifted. If Fuente is planning on this then I would think it is in response to the above issue.
That's actually completely inaccurate, at least based on the manufacturers that I've spoken to on the subject (Carlito Fuente included).
 

moki

SilverBack
I heard or read somewhere that Fuente was thinking about mass producing all his lines except for Opus and Casa Fuente. Any truth to this or just nice rumor to get every one giddy?

I find it hard to beleive because almost impossible to find The Work of Art, Untold Story, Hemingway Maduros, Anjeos and Opus. Not to mention he loves his marketing....

Anyone know anything?
Yes, I know that there is no truth to any of this.
 

publicspeakingnerd

I Take Foggy Photos
Maybe I'm hard-headed but I refuse to believe this...

but MY real question is, is there a difference between mass and non-mass produced cigars as far as taste/quality goes?
 

walleye

Young Ape
I doubt Fuente will mass produce more than they do already. If the Don Carlos and Hemmingway lines suddenly jumped in supply the prices would fall. They make a ton of cash keeping these lines in limited production, not to mention Opus and Anejo and the other speciality cigars. Try finding a good price on an 858 sungrown, which is just another in the 858 line. Fuentes is the master of controlling supply and B&M's to set high demand and make a ton of cash for both. They have a geat PR team to sell buyers on the mystic of Fuentes. Was in Vegas last month and thier prices were killer at Casa. Much cheaper to buy a box of high end CC's than a box of Fuentes Opus or Anejos. I admit Opus and Anejo can be good, but the prices they sell at are netting someone a ton of cash. I'd love to see Cubans legal to give some brands a run for thier money. Not sure how NC monties, cohibas and RYJ's will stack up to the real thing, but they did steal the names from Cuba. Fuente and all NC producers would need to step up to compete since the monoply on the US market would end. Until then Don Pepin makes better sticks at better prices. Just my 2 cents.
 

zmancbr

Fuente Whore
He's not doing that already? :)


The non-Cuban producers have a small window to build up their brands now that Fidel has stepped down. The Dominican, Honduran, and Nicaraguan cigar manufacturers are more afraid of the embargo ending than the US government. Their sales will decline considerably for the first few years after the embargo is lifted. If Fuente is planning on this then I would think it is in response to the above issue.

Just because the embargo "could" be lifted doesn't mean that the NC producers have anything to worry about IMO. There are many people now that can obtain the ISOM's if they wish and many due. Yet still the NC brands are gaining momentum. They are making quality sticks that will survive the ending of any embargo.

I mean think about it this way. Anyone in this hobby probably knows someone who can get them the CC they wish. On top of that...the only country not allowed to buy directly from Cuba is the U.S. ...a very small market in the grand scheme of things considering there are over 7 billion people and we make up 300 million of that. Opening the market to the US will hardly flood things. I would bet Cuban sales of cigars would modestly increase and NC would drop slightly. But I seriously doubt that any of them will lose considerable market share...I know I for one will continue to buy many boxes of Fuente products per year regardless of what any of the Castros do in Cuba. :tu

Just my humble opinion!
 

Boomer

ChestBeater
What makes you think that the market will be flooded with cuban cigars if and when the embargo is lifted? The ISOM has been able to sell everything they can produce WITHOUT US! Do you think that they will shaft the loyal countries and send everything here? Nuts.:mn
 

Munkey

Howler Monkey
That's actually completely inaccurate, at least based on the manufacturers that I've spoken to on the subject (Carlito Fuente included).
Moki - just curious, how do you know all these people? You have access to some incredibly rare cigars and have firsthand conversations with a group of high level industry people. Is there a post somewhere this is described? I've been curious for a good while. TIA
 

Sauer Grapes

Entrepierna del Fuego
Moki - just curious, how do you know all these people? You have access to some incredibly rare cigars and have firsthand conversations with a group of high level industry people. Is there a post somewhere this is described? I've been curious for a good while. TIA
I'm pretty sure he's a supporter of the CFC. I'm not sure of the extent of his relationship, but I would venture to guess that at least some of the cigars he has and the access he has comes from his support for that charity.
 

St. Lou Stu

Keeper of the Loc-Nar
What makes you think that the market will be flooded with cuban cigars if and when the embargo is lifted? The ISOM has been able to sell everything they can produce WITHOUT US! Do you think that they will shaft the loyal countries and send everything here? Nuts.:mn
Yeah. Agreed. If they can sell all of their product without anyone in the US buying since 1968 or whatever it was, why would they take cigars away from a small country like ...oh, say Switzerland or someone like that just to shift for sales in the US? Boy, that would piss the Swiss off!:D
 

Wondering Nomad

Maturing Primate
Wow! I didn't think that a little opinion would generate such strong feelings. I'll try to explain a bit more of where I was coming from. The following is all opinion, there's no need to get angry.

And no, Fuente isn't "mass producing" anything, business as normal.
If a firm is vertically integrated, has multiple product lines, and a worldwide distribution network I would consider them a mass producer. While not a definitive source, Wikipedia's entry states that they have 2,000 employees, 6 factories, and 4 plantations. They have multiple line that appeal to all different price points. Toyota Motors has Scion, Toyota, and Lexus. Fuente has Arturo Fuente, Don Carlos/Hemingway and Opus. Both are mass producers of quality products.





As for the embargo and supply issues. If the Democrats win the White House in November the South Florida Cubans won't have the influence in Washington that they have now. The South Florida Cubans have controlled the delegates in that state and they obviously do not want the embargo to end. While Hillary might be for the status quo, a democrat controlled congress is fairly likely to press for the end and neither Hillary or Barack will say no. If the Democrats do win the White House with or without Florida; I can see the embargo ending in the next three years. Then again, it easy to forecast on the internet; who's going to hold me to it?:D

As for the consumers of premium hand-rolled cigars. What percentage of the cigar smoking public would you consider a hobbyist? I suspect that most of the consumers in the US have a small humidor at home and buy a few sticks every time they visit the local B&M. The vast majority of the cigar smoking population does not spend their evenings on message boards discussing the finer points of everything cigar. These consumers are the backbone of the cigar industry and they are going to gravitate to the Cubans once they become legal. They've been able to smoke the best NC for years and now they will spend the two years following the embargo trying everything they haven't been able to sample in the past. Even if the consumption of CC is only 10-25% of consumption, that is a 10-25% decrease in NC consumption. Add to that the non-smokers that will want to try the CC for the experience and you will have a drain on NC sales.

I know that my personal consumption habits will change. I buy a box every other month and the only thing that will change is that I will try a new box of CC every other month after the embargo.



What makes you think that the market will be flooded with cuban cigars if and when the embargo is lifted? The ISOM has been able to sell everything they can produce WITHOUT US! Do you think that they will shaft the loyal countries and send everything here? Nuts.:mn
The cigars will follow the cash. If Americans are willing to pay a premium then we will get the product. This will be especially true if there is American investment in the Cuban infrastructure. The USA is the largest consumer of cigars and I would suspect that will not change any time soon. So if the largest consumer now has access to a previously unavailable but sought after product, what do you think will happen?


That's actually completely inaccurate, at least based on the manufacturers that I've spoken to on the subject (Carlito Fuente included).
Are you saying that Carlito welcomes the competition? I can assure you that Fuente does not want more competition, especially from someone that will wield considerable market power.



I do have a question for all of you though...what will happen to Altadis when the embargo ends? What will happen when the true owners of the great Cuban names come to the states? What will happen to the Monte, Ryj, and H. Upman lines when this all comes down?




Just my opinion.
 

JDC20

ChestBeater
Wondering Nomad: My "mass producing" comment was in reference to the original poster asking if there was a change in what Fuente is making or will make, and as stated, business as normal. :)

And as for your ideas about the embargo ending and what that means for NC manufactures, it all depends on what type of system goes in place in Cuba. If it is a free market what would keep the NC manufactures from buying farms or factories on the island?

Also as you stated "the cigars will follow the cash", can the same be said for the tobacco? What if the scenario plays out that the raw tobacco is worth more to NC manufactures and the powers that be in Cuba could make more money selling a raw material than a finished product? Just think, they wouldn't have to age, roll, package, distribute anything, just grow and sell tobacco. This could also lead to a rollback in production of cigars thus increasing the value of any cigar they would/could produce.

I think it will be great for the industry when the embargo ends. When the families that made cuban cigars famous in the first place can get their hands back on some of that tobacco, I think it is a win/win.

As for you Altadis question, they already have the trademark in question when they took a 49% (or was it 50%) stake in Habanos SA in the late 90's or early 00's. So that doesn't seem to be a problem. :2
 

Spect

Gorilla
I suspect that most of the consumers in the US have a small humidor at home and buy a few sticks every time they visit the local B&M. The vast majority of the cigar smoking population does not spend their evenings on message boards discussing the finer points of everything cigar. These consumers are the backbone of the cigar industry and they are going to gravitate to the Cubans once they become legal.
Lots of speculation, no facts.

If some Joe "Macanudos-and-flavored-cigars rock" is out there just waiting for the embargo to end what makes you think they will suddenly make the leap to hobbyists to consumers?

If I'm misunderstanding you and you're referring to regular smokers as the "backbone of the cigar industry" then those folks already subvert the embargo, thus no change.
 

moki

SilverBack
Are you saying that Carlito welcomes the competition? I can assure you that Fuente does not want more competition, especially from someone that will wield considerable market power.
No, I'm saying that this statement from you:

.....

The non-Cuban producers have a small window to build up their brands now that Fidel has stepped down. The Dominican, Honduran, and Nicaraguan cigar manufacturers are more afraid of the embargo ending than the US government. Their sales will decline considerably for the first few years after the embargo is lifted. If Fuente is planning on this then I would think it is in response to the above issue.

.....

...is ridiculous, uninformed, inaccurate conjecture. There is no "small window of opportunity" -- they are not "afraid" -- there is no reason to believe their sales will "decline considerably".

Let's try this in reverse:

-- Are you suggesting that for the past 30 years or so, manufacturers like Fuente have not built up their brands, and indeed have significant mindshare?

-- Exactly which manufacturers did you speak to that stated they were "afraid" of the embargo being lifted?

-- More importantly, why would they be afraid?

-- On exactly what statistical model are you basing the idea that their sales will "decline considerably"?

I have spoken at length to people in the industry about this subject, and you couldn't be more off base.
 

lenguamor

Gorila Cabrón
No, I'm saying that this statement from you:

.....

The non-Cuban producers have a small window to build up their brands now that Fidel has stepped down. The Dominican, Honduran, and Nicaraguan cigar manufacturers are more afraid of the embargo ending than the US government. Their sales will decline considerably for the first few years after the embargo is lifted. If Fuente is planning on this then I would think it is in response to the above issue.

.....

...is ridiculous, uninformed, inaccurate conjecture. There is no "small window of opportunity" -- they are not "afraid" -- there is no reason to believe their sales will "decline considerably".

Let's try this in reverse:

-- Are you suggesting that for the past 30 years or so, manufacturers like Fuente have not built up their brands, and indeed have significant mindshare?

-- Exactly which manufacturers did you speak to that stated they were "afraid" of the embargo being lifted?

-- More importantly, why would they be afraid?

-- On exactly what statistical model are you basing the idea that their sales will "decline considerably"?

I have spoken at length to people in the industry about this subject, and you couldn't be more off base.
Being knowledgeable is a wonderful thing; sharing it with the brethren here is generous and appreciated.

But why do you feel that you need to be such a prick about it?

This forum is for discussion at all levels; your posts, for the most part, discourage discussion by demeaning others.

It doesn't matter WHY you do it - only that you feel the need to do so. And it is a detriment to the site, if I may so bold as to express that opinion given my relative still-just-a-monkey status here at CS.
 
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